Making progress; turbocharging a Briggs & Stratton

[ΜΟΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ!]

After the EFI and turbo comes the task of building a dyno

Take it to an electric motor rebuild shop that has a dyno (the larger ones do)

[65ShelbyClone]

I don't think there are any around here like that. There isn't enough heavy equipment industry around here to attract a large motor shop. An eddy current dyno would be cool, but doing something with all the power is the hard part. I can't dump 50-100kw into the grid and burning it off with something is really impractical. A 100hp hydraulic or water pump is hard to find also. Luckily I have an idea for one using some car disc brakes and a torque wrench. If I know the rpm and peak torque, I can get a reasonably accurate horsepower calculation. If I videotape the pull and the readings, I can plot a curve as well as record the engine spilling its guts.

[ΜΟΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ!]

I can't dump 50-100kw into the grid

yes, you can, and the power company has to buy it from you.

Besides, a 10 hp engine is physically INCAPABLE generating 50-100KW!!
If you could squeeze 30 HP out of that thing, I would believe maybe 20 KW


Friction dynos are REALLY finicky creatures, becuase the friction coefficient is changing constantly with heat variations and pad wear


I wouldn't worry too much about getting it on a dyno.

[65ShelbyClone]

Yeah, I can hook it up to the grid, but I'd have to organize it with the power company. I would have to have a control box that would isolate my dyno when the grid is off. They get upset when someone is throwing power into a line they thought was cold so the linemen can work on them....

You're right on the kW, it's only about 746W per horsepower. I don't expect more than 30hp either, but I want some headroom in case I get surprised. 50,000 watts is still quite a bit. If only I had the head unit off that 250kW generator I saw....

The dyno's first purpose will be to apply a load so I can get the turbo spooled. Measuring the power is an added benfit. I don't need the friction dyno to be linear. I will use the torque beam for measuring and can apply more force as heat reduces friction. A water brake would be ideal, but see previous comments about cost and availability.


EDIT: Forgot about this:

[Drac0nic]

Go to the local heater/AC shop and see if they have any junker heaters they've pulled from houses and get the elements from those to load your electric motor with.   They're a load that's almost purely resistive, and should be quite large.   Besides that, a 3 phase synchronous motor with the armature being energized would probably work very well for hooking the briggs to.

[65ShelbyClone]

I'm not going to sweat the dyno just yet; I have to get the engine running first. I'll probably do that with a carb before EFI.

I think the experts on the Nissan forums are getting tired of me asking questions they can't answer or don't see a point in anwering. Stuff like modding the MAF to have a full 0-5v curve at 25% of the stock flow and whether the engine will run without a crank angle sensor. I got a response tonight that amounted to a cutdown of my plan and me wasting my time by not getting a used MegaSquirt. Its like the whole thing is a big pie-in-the-sky joke. Discouraging indeed.

[ΜΟΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ!]

A blow thru motorcycle carb *would* be 500% easier.

[65ShelbyClone]

More like 1000% easier.

I dunno, my confidence has actually been shaken a bit. I've been looking on EBAY for 'Squirts and a v2.2 is ~$146 shipped, unassembled. I'd have to factor in the 44psi MAP upgrade, and after that I'm over $200. I can afford it, but it's hard to justify the cost, especially when I wouldn't have a car to use it on for at least another year.

This sucks.

[JRL96TA]

Don't know if anyone has posted this yet.  Here's a video of a 2HP Briggs.

http://videos.streetfire.net/video/26FEE1A2-E1D9-4A05-92A3-5CBF44AA20C7.htm

[65ShelbyClone]

Nope, haven't seen that. Luckily it's more of a joke than anything. That turbo is about 25% larger than the one I'm going to use and that 2hp engine is about 1/3 the displacement of mine...and was stock. Clever video, though.

You saw the turbo Vespa on streetfire, right?

[JRL96TA]

Nope, haven't seen that. Luckily it's more of a joke than anything. That turbo is about 25% larger than the one I'm going to use and that 2hp engine is about 1/3 the displacement of mine...and was stock. Clever video, though.

You saw the turbo Vespa on streetfire, right?

Here's another.  This one isn't a joke.

http://videos.streetfire.net/search/briggs/0/36FDE95E-F4B6-4202-87D9-2FB81F4B75A1.htm

[65ShelbyClone]

Look closely and you can see that the turbo on the tractor has no wastegate actuator; it is locked shut. I also heard an exahaust whine, but no real spool up, leading me to believe that the turbo is too big in that application as well. He also held it wide open for quite a while and it didn't gain revs nor blow up. I'd have to see a boost gage to be sure, though.

EDIT: It also doesn't have any oil supply. I bet the bearings were done before the video was. 

On a side note, he spun that up pretty high considering the vertical shaft. You can't hide from a flywheel explosion on one of those...

[dmoss69]

If yall keep this up, I'm gonna start!  This is ridculous, cause I'm really getting the feaver since watching the lawnmower video.  (Dr evil laugh,  muhahah, muhahaha, )

I know where 2 turbos are, one's off of a volvo, and the other is on a Nissan, either the 240sx or 300zx old body style.  I'll get them and let yall know what I found.

D Moss

[65ShelbyClone]

If you're getting them just for that project, then don't bother with either of those turbos. Look for something off a Chevy Sprint turbo; It only had a 1.3L. That is still too big for even a 16hp v-twin Vanguard, but you'll be in the right direction. It would also greatly simplify things to start with an engine that has full pressure lubrication, like the larger stationary engines(Kohler Command series v-twins, Honda flat twins and v-twins, and the Briggs 35hp v-twin).

Here's the Briggs:
http://www.northerntool.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/product2_6970_200322176_200322176
Even states the displacement at 993cc or 1.0L.

and a Kohler:
http://www.northerntool.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/product2_6970_200119374_200119374

[dmoss69]

Either way, I'm getting these turbos for next to nothing.   

As far as the oiling system, I have a sure-flo oil pump that I bought for my truck project, and changed the location of the turbo, so now I'm gravity draining the turbo back into the engine, and I have the oil pump left over.  I am going to use that on the next project, lawnmower or not!   

As far as the chevy sprint, I don't know where any of these are, but I'll keep my eyes open for one.  This weekend, starting tommorow (or tonight), I'm pulling my motor out of my truck and going to start putting my other turbo engine in the truck.  It's under the blowthrough section.

I'll keep yall updated!

[65ShelbyClone]

If they're cheap, then get them just to have . I have the little IHI for this project, a Merkur T3, AiResearch T4, and a KKK K30 that alltogether set me back ~$75. I'm still on watch for a TD02, GT12, and other small turbos, but they're very rare and usually go for $350+.

In your oil pump just a scavenger, or can it produce pressure too? You'll need about 15psi minimum for the hairdryer.

The turbo Sprints are not very common. I saw one in a small JY years ago and the turbo was mangled. I've seen only one other and it was on the road. I guess the Canadian market got a turbo Geo Metro....

[Da Natti]

i tell you what it kind of giving me the fever to i have a racing lawn tractor with a 17hp twin vangaurd  did you say a k30 is to big!

[65ShelbyClone]

Eh, yeah, a K30 is probably 2/3 the size of the whole Vaguard engine.

I looked on Ebay and found a few TD02 size turbos out of Japan, but after the Buy It Now and shipping it would be $360. I'll have to wait until the cashflow picks up. Anyone want an original '68 C4 trans, plate, convertor, and shifter out of my Mustang?

[Da Natti]

well you gave me the fever i bought a ihi rhf3 vz42 off ebay 120 shipped it soppose to be for 660cc engine it is a little bigger than a 12oz soda can i wonder how hard it will be to go blow thru on the factory carb can i just jet it bigger like the do to modify a carb to run alcohol on a 5 hp briggs or just buy motor cycle carb insted.

[65ShelbyClone]

well you gave me the fever i bought a ihi rhf3 vz42 off ebay 120 shipped it soppose to be for 660cc engine

Ah, it came off one of those keijidōsha cars("kei car" for short) from Japan. hhttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Keicar

Damn, I would have one already if I could find one for $120. All the ones I see are nearly 3x that, like these:http://motors.search.ebay.com/search/search.dll?sofocus=bs&sbrftog=1&from=R10&mppfqy=small+turbocharger&catref=C6&satitle=small+turbocharger&sacat=6028%26catref%3DC6&bs=Search&fsop=1%26fsoo%3D1&coaction=compare&copagenum=1&coentrypage=search&fmmk=&fmmd=&fylo=&fyhi=&mppfQy=small+turbocharger&sargn=-1%26saslc%3D2&sadis=200&fpos=91342&ftrt=1&ftrv=1&saprclo=&saprchi=

For the carb, it would be easier to do blow-through with one from a bike. The Briggs carb is probably one attached to the tank, right? Yuo would need to pressurize the fuel somehow. Boost referencing the tank might work, but you would also be making a pressurized gasoline bomb in the process. Look for something from a common 250-400cc 4-stroke dirtbike.

[Da Natti]

yeah it is gravity fed from the tank with about 2 feet of hose but  the carb is on it own in take! it is a vangaurd 17 hp a friend of mine is into racing gocart with alcohol in order to run alcohol on a 5 hp briggs he says he modifys the carb to throw 3 times the amount of fuel as the gas powered engine cause it takes that much for combustion with alcohol i thought if i jet it bigger it would ruff idle but clear up on hard throttle and boost! it is a pretty thick plastic tank it would pobrobly take alot psi before it is bomb level or at least more than the engine could take.

[Da Natti]

oh here is the link of what i bought hopfully it is good.http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1,1&item=8061068156&sspagename=STRK%3AMEWN%3AIT

[curious]

so could tbi be utilized? 4 cylinder tbi units are cheap to find, and are pretty small. i think sometimes 40someting mm.

im sure a simple controller could be built. no problems blowing through either. adjustments could be made with a potentiometer. map and tps usually built in.

[65ShelbyClone]

I went throught that whole "build a simple EFI controller" phase and it turned out to be a huge PITA with only the possibility of mediocre results at best. A digital system of some sort, even just running a small PIC with a couple 5v inputs, would be better than trying to hack it out in analog. Yes TBI will work, but the injectors are usually WAY too big. On my project I'm going for port injection just because I already have the stuff.

oh here is the link of what i bought hopfully it is good.http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1,1&item=8061068156&sspagename=STRK%3AMEWN%3AIT

I could have sworn I saw that turbo or another that was the exact same on an Ebay store months ago. The IHIs seem to be less common on the used market than Mitsubishis, Garretts, or Hitachis. Good buy, BTW

[ΜΟΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ!]

how hard it will be to go blow thru on the factory carb

build a box around it to pressurize the whole carb.


You will also need an electric fuel pump and a boost referenced fuel pressure regulator.

No way around it.


Very possibly you will have problems getting enough fuel flow through the single needle and seat.