vecco / tfl performance hot side stainless sucks

[B&G CUSTOM TURBO]

Brian, do you have a patent or copyright on your kits that keep people from copying them, I know Nitrous Express and several other companies copy each other and as Ricky tells me, unless there is some sort of patent, there is nothing legaly anyone can do.  companies all steal from one another in one way.  I know Vecco does use jigs to build there stuff, would be interesting if theyre products bolt directly into your jigs too   Id be curious to see what happens here.  I know pattented parts have to be changed 10% to get arond a patent, but non patented parts are yours for the taking. Whats your thoughts on this.

My thought are as follows faye/sharp out of cleveland believes I have a case and if I want to pony up(no pun intended) the money they will be more then happy to start.  As for copyright that only applies to writings/ thought crap like that.  The only reason I have a case at all is that we traced the set back to Shawn, and Shawn confirmed it. Thank you Shawn. As for taking and copying a design yep it's been done, but to outright copy something...well thats another case. The thing I thought would have cost me being able to do anything was the smaller radius bends used on some of the primaries, and the brace for the turbo mount. But according to fay/sharp this is not the case.  At this point I will not reply any further as we are currently deciding which way to go, and believe Brandon at  this time has hurt his companys reputation  more then he could have ever imagined. If I would walk away at this time he would still suffer, especially when it hits print.
You have a good one,
Brian

[REDSTANG]

Wow what a shity thing to do, I was going to buy the vecco hot parts this week as I have had email conversations with the turd. After reading this I will not buy them from them. I would like to buy them from you where can I get them? Thanks and good luck with your case.

[Novi357]

Being incorporated does not necessarily limit what you can get from them.  Look up "piercing the corporate veil" and you will find some potentially interesting and hopefully useful information.

[Legendary]

Got my Vecco kit in today!!  Man this thing rocks!!.....   










oops.... wrong thread. 


 

[Strub1975]

I bought a used Vecco twin turbo kit and it seems nice however thier customer service sucks !!! I tried to get a Power steering relocation bracket that they make for their kits and ordered it on DEC 19th and finally after many emails and excuses on Feb 19th I got tired of waiting and asked for my money back expecting a long wait followed by a million excuses wanting me to keep the order but the next day I got it back through pay-pal so I am rooting for you brian !!

[JustinG]

My thought are as follows faye/sharp out of cleveland believes I have a case and if I want to pony up(no pun intended) the money they will be more then happy to start.  As for copyright that only applies to writings/ thought crap like that.  The only reason I have a case at all is that we traced the set back to Shawn, and Shawn confirmed it. Thank you Shawn. As for taking and copying a design yep it's been done, but to outright copy something...well thats another case. The thing I thought would have cost me being able to do anything was the smaller radius bends used on some of the primaries, and the brace for the turbo mount. But according to fay/sharp this is not the case.  At this point I will not reply any further as we are currently deciding which way to go, and believe Brandon at  this time has hurt his companys reputation  more then he could have ever imagined. If I would walk away at this time he would still suffer, especially when it hits print.
You have a good one,
Brian

Brian I know you stated your not going to reply until this situation is resolved wither you take action or not, but please do give us an update once everything is done and over with. I am very interested to hear how this turns out especially with the many difference of opinions in the other thread. http://www.turbomustangs.com/smf/index.php?topic=57187.0

Justin

[mike wilson]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but Vecco seems to be the ONLY kit vendor that offers retention of ALL accessories. Seems to me highly unfair that a knee walking knuckle dragging moron like Vecco should be able to be in an only one available market, and I find it hard to imagine that he didn't steal this design also.
    Now, if by some sleight of hand a DECENT guy ended up being able to market that, and Vecco no lionger could, after fines that might approach justice.
    I nominate BG CUSTOM TURBO to be the sole producer of twin all accessory kits for foxes.

[dr511scj]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but Vecco seems to be the ONLY kit vendor that offers retention of ALL accessories. Seems to me highly unfair that a knee walking knuckle dragging moron like Vecco should be able to be in an only one available market, and I find it hard to imagine that he didn't steal this design also.
    Now, if by some sleight of hand a DECENT guy ended up being able to market that, and Vecco no lionger could, after fines that might approach justice.
    I nominate BG CUSTOM TURBO to be the sole producer of twin all accessory kits for foxes.

Why does everyone assume "Vecco" is "guilty" of something merely on the unsubstantiated complaint of a competitor?

Frankly, the seemingly endless soap opera involving the various OHIO-BASED kit manufacturers is tiresome.

In fact--the whole "twin turbo" business is tiresome and FRUSTRATING!   Some of us have wanted to buy an off-the-shelf twin-turbo Fox kit for years that retained PS, AC and smog pump (and which could be adapted, if necessary, to the 351W deck heigth with minor piping extensions) and with OEM reliable water-cooled turbochargers. Yet what have the "kit manufacturers" provided?

Cartech--race only kit from the '80s with no room for accessories;

Turbo Technology--race only kit from the early '90s with no room for accessories;

Incon--massively expensive kit with tiny turbos and manditory frame notching, then poor customer service, then out of business;

Turbo Driven Concepts--out of business (apparently a bunch of undercapitalized dreamers or con-men who ripped a bunch of folks off)

Innovative Turbo Solutions-- out of business (the infamous "Carson" from OHIO, who seems to have been either another undercapitalized dreamer or a con-man who ripped a bunch of folks off)

EVERYBODY ELSE (e.g. Roush, Banks, Turbonetics, HP, Pro, Hellion . . . .):  "Bring us your car and we'll do a hyper-expensive one-off install for ya . . . if you can leave it with us for [X] months."

VECCO is allegedly the only bunch which offers a mail-order street twin turbo kit . . . and now another who-ever-heard-of-them-before-a-couple-of-months-ago company is trying to run them out of business over a frankly ordinary-looking SINGLE TURBO KIT! (yawn)

One wonders why Mike Sitar or Cartech or Turbo Technologies doesn't sue the legions of "custom" builders who have "ripped off" their designs? . . . I guess because none of them are based in OHIO!

If B & G prevails in driving yet another twin-turbo kit builder into bankruptcy, they ought to be REQUIRED to offer a street twin turbo kit for Foxes with 302/351W that retains all emissions and accessories!  Maybe they could "jig it" off of Vecco's kit . . . .

Whatever happened to free enterprise and competition? 

[dr511scj]

 I must add that VECCO wasn't very confidence inspiring before this BG CUSTOM TURBO dust-up . . . Vecco never seems to update their websites, was apparently mostly a parts reseller on eBay,  and the only instrumented testing of a Vecco twin kit was self-reported and on a bone-stock 5.0 which made less than 400 h.p.

[gotageta5oh]

and now another who-ever-heard-of-them-before-a-couple-of-months-ago company is trying to run them out of business over a frankly ordinary-looking SINGLE TURBO KIT! (yawn)

you have no idea what you are talking about. it is obvious you either a). didn't read the thread or b). are covering up for someone you know at vecco.



i hope brian takes them to the cleaners.

[gotageta5oh]

ha... he joined today and those are his first 2 posts. looks like somebody is a little biased on this topic.

[dr511scj]

Now I've seen the "Pony Down" ad . . . yet another "twin" kit* that requires removal of some  essential street accessories . . . .       Sorry that I neglected to include them in my list of "kit manufacturers" above.


*Arguably a COMPLETE kit would include the turbochargers, though.

[dr511scj]

you have no idea what you are talking about. it is obvious you either a). didn't read the thread or b). are covering up for someone you know at vecco.

ha... he joined today and those are his first 2 posts. looks like somebody is a little biased on this topic.

Why would you assume any of these things?

To clarify--BG CUSTOM TURBO may be a titanic legend in Ohio, on eBay, or among a discrete and insular community of drag racers, but until I read about them in the latest MM&FF, I'd never heard of them.  I haven't seen any of their stuff on any car (that I was aware of).  They aren't listed in the Turbomustangs kit overview list, either.  Thus, I think it's fair to assert they are relatively new to the big-time Mustang turbo kit business.

If their stuff's in Summit or JEGS or PAW catalogs, then I stand corrected.

Second, I don't know a soul at Vecco. In fact, I've been reluctant for a couple of years to send them any money for a kit -- based on the shenanigans of the other fly-by-night street twin kit builders before them (Incon, ITS, TDC), and the lack of objective reporting on their kit.

Third, notwithstanding that the idea of ANOTHER single turbo kit for Fox 5.0s is simply passe' (how long has Cartech and TTI been selling them--twenty years?), I looked at the photos and links that "plaintiff" BG CUSTOM TURBO posted and I just don't see anything all that incredible, innovative, patented or even very different from the scores of other single 5.0 kits on the market.  And doesn't Mr. BG CUSTOM TURBO admit above that the Vecco "design" is modified with tighter bends and bracing?  (maybe these "kit builders"  should be running their TIGs instead of their mouths, and let the free market decide whom to reward).

Fourth, I actually don't "know" anything about intricacies of building single turbo Fox kits--because I don't want one!   I am fully aware of the arguable technical advantages of single v. twins.  But I am "biased" in favor of the symetrically balanced appearance of twins and believe that elimination of the pre-turbine crossover pipe and provisions for water-cooled center sections can't help but improve long-term reliability on the street. 

Fifth, just as when Vortech and ATI spent thousands of dollars on lawyers and years in court, I just don't see how these fights help any consumers.  All they do is delay product innovations and waste limited development and operational funds.

Sixth, [Jesus] took me by the hand . . . lead me 'crossed the Promised Land . . . Jesus,  He's my friend . . . . (with apologies to the Doobie Brothers)

[gotageta5oh]

Now I've seen the "Pony Down" ad . . . yet another "twin" kit* that requires removal of some  essential street accessories . . . .       Sorry that I neglected to include them in my list of "kit manufacturers" above.


*Arguably a COMPLETE kit would include the turbochargers, though.

so that is your argument... you insult 2 very supportive members of this site that have a reputation for building quality products on time. not to mention have good customer service.

and you do this in the defense of vecco. a company that can't return e-mails, phone calls or anything. the kit was boght by somebody from vecco and copied and sold as thier own. why would it matter if a kit included turbo's or not. it isn't like turbo's are hard to get.

[gotageta5oh]

Why would you assume any of these things?

To clarify--BG CUSTOM TURBO may be a titanic legend in Ohio, on eBay, or among a discrete and insular community of drag racers, but until I read about them in the latest MM&FF, I'd never heard of them.  I haven't seen any of their stuff on any car (that I was aware of).  They aren't listed in the Turbomustangs kit overview list, either.  Thus, I think it's fair to assert they are relatively new to the big-time Mustang turbo kit business.

If their stuff's in Summit or JEGS or PAW catalogs, then I stand corrected.

Second, I don't know a soul at Vecco. In fact, I've been reluctant for a couple of years to send them any money for a kit -- based on the shenanigans of the other fly-by-night street twin kit builders before them (Incon, ITS, TDC), and the lack of objective reporting on their kit.

Third, notwithstanding that the idea of ANOTHER single turbo kit for Fox 5.0s is simply passe' (how long has Cartech and TTI been selling them--twenty years?), I looked at the photos and links that "plaintiff" BG CUSTOM TURBO posted and I just don't see anything all that incredible, innovative, patented or even very different from the scores of other single 5.0 kits on the market.  And doesn't Mr. BG CUSTOM TURBO admit above that the Vecco "design" is modified with tighter bends and bracing?  (maybe these "kit builders"  should be running their TIGs instead of their mouths, and let the free market decide whom to reward).

Fourth, I actually don't "know" anything about intricacies of building single turbo Fox kits--because I don't want one!   I am fully aware of the arguable technical advantages of single v. twins.  But I am "biased" in favor of the symetrically balanced appearance of twins and believe that elimination of the pre-turbine crossover pipe and provisions for water-cooled center sections can't help but improve long-term reliability on the street. 

Fifth, just as when Vortech and ATI spent thousands of dollars on lawyers and years in court, I just don't see how these fights help any consumers.  All they do is delay product innovations and waste limited development and operational funds.

Sixth, [Jesus] took me by the hand . . . lead me 'crossed the Promised Land . . . Jesus,  He's my friend . . . . (with apologies to the Doobie Brothers)

so what is your point. BG CUSTOM TURBO hasn't been around as long as others. big fucking deal. BG CUSTOM TURBO has built quite a good reputation for themselves and brian has earned all of this. he didn't need to go out and buy someone else's kit to copy so he could try to make a buck. i haven't look at the turbo list here for a couple of years. but i know that BG CUSTOM TURBO is a supporter of the site and they are a trusted supplier that returns phone calls unlike the ass clowns at vecco.


2. i don't care who you know. it seems like you have vecco's balls resting on your chin right now. If you don't like the other "fly by night" companies you could always use tti yeah the kit has been around for a while but it is a proven commodity. you could make your own kit. possibly you could buy a kit from some crooks. yeah that is a gamble worth taking lets see what the quality and customer support is like after they have your money.

3. yes lets let the free market decide... we'll make vecco design thier own kit so they have to pay for all the expenses and man hours of getting it right so it will fit. and then let the free market decide.

4. single vs twins... see now here i understand what you are saying. however i look at a twin kit as having twice as many parts to go bad. and since there is no real performance gain to me it isn't worth it. my 83 TC (in sig) had a stock turbo last over 200,000 miles and it didn't have a water cooled center section. the key to longevity is in maintenance and in the tune.

5. i agree. so if people would quit copying others products and actually created something of thier own then we wouldn't have problems like this.

6. if you really want to go there start another thread because it will get heated fast. and the results might surprise you

[dr511scj]

you insult 2 very supportive members of this site that have a reputation for building quality products on time. not to mention have good customer service.

and you do this in the defense of vecco. a company that can't return e-mails, phone calls or anything. the kit was boght by somebody from vecco and copied and sold as thier own. why would it matter if a kit included turbo's or not. it isn't like turbo's are hard to get.

I don't see how it's an insult to anyone to point out that no currently operating company but Vecco (if they're still operating) offers a streetable twin turbo for 5.0 Fox Mustangs that is compatible with AC, PS and emissions.

I don't see how it's an insult to anyone to recognize that some Ohio kit builders have a sorted history of instability and fighting amongst themselves . . . and that this broughhaha is shaping up to be yet another black mark on what some view as an increasingly "shady" industry. 

I don't see how it's an insult to opine that spending money on lawyers and fighting over what is almost a commodity product doesn't really benefit anyone's customers and is a waste of resources. 

As to Vecco--anyone can come on here and say anything about anyone.  How can we verify who is being truthful and who isn't?  Nobody from Vecco is posting on here, so we don't know their side of these stories. Aren't they "entitled" to their "day in court?"


PLEASE NOTE THAT I POINTED OUT MY LACK OF CONFIDENCE IN VECCO BASED ON THEIR APPARENT INATTENTION TO PROMOTING THEIR PRODUCTS.    On the other hand, the guy who wanted a refund for his PS bracket order RECEIVED ONE quickly.  Their eBay feedback score is remarkably positive as well.  So it's unfair to say VECCO "never" responds to its customers.  Because of my long-past days as an auto parts retailer, I'm fully aware that--even though "the customer is always right"--somebody is going to complain about "poor customer service"  no matter what you do or how much free "make-good" stuff you give them.  The best you can hope for is keeping the other 99% of your customers happy.  I don't think we have enough data to assert with certainty that Vecco totally ignores their customers. 

The lawsuit of the sort BG CUSTOM TURBO is contemplating is hard to win and benefits no consumers. It doesn't meet any customer needs or bring any new products to market.  In fact, Henry Ford himself was arguably in the position of Vecco when he refused to honor the bogus "Selden Patent" and contiuned to build cars as an "unlicensened" manufacturer despite threats and litigation.  I'd much rather see one or more of the Ohio kit makers (or anybody for that matter) step up to build a truly streetable and durable twin kit instead of fighting over scraps of the single turbo market.

On finding turbos:  Some of us want to open a big box on Friday night with the hope that we'll be driving a turbocharged Fox by Monday morning.  That's what people who buy a Banks kit for an SBC can expect.  Completeness.  Thorough engineering. Parts compatibility.  No scrounging for bits necessary.

I have nothing against anyone who wants to search the JY for "Volvo-style" T3s or bid on cheap imported turbos on eBay.   Selling parts doesn't exclude selling more complete kits--and that was the specific point I was addressing. 

Finally, being an advertiser or a "supporter" shouldn't buy anyone immunity in any forum.  Otherwise, the integrity of the forum is compromised.

[dr511scj]

so what is your point. BG CUSTOM TURBO hasn't been around as long as others. big fucking deal. BG CUSTOM TURBO has built quite a good reputation for themselves and brian has earned all of this. he didn't need to go out and buy someone else's kit to copy so he could try to make a buck. i haven't look at the turbo list here for a couple of years. but i know that BG CUSTOM TURBO is a supporter of the site and they are a trusted supplier that returns phone calls unlike the ass clowns at vecco.


2. i don't care who you know. it seems like you have vecco's balls resting on your chin right now. If you don't like the other "fly by night" companies you could always use tti yeah the kit has been around for a while but it is a proven commodity. you could make your own kit. possibly you could buy a kit from some crooks. yeah that is a gamble worth taking lets see what the quality and customer support is like after they have your money.

3. yes lets let the free market decide... we'll make vecco design thier own kit so they have to pay for all the expenses and man hours of getting it right so it will fit. and then let the free market decide.

4. single vs twins... see now here i understand what you are saying. however i look at a twin kit as having twice as many parts to go bad. and since there is no real performance gain to me it isn't worth it. my 83 TC (in sig) had a stock turbo last over 200,000 miles and it didn't have a water cooled center section. the key to longevity is in maintenance and in the tune.

5. i agree. so if people would quit copying others products and actually created something of thier own then we wouldn't have problems like this.

6. if you really want to go there start another thread because it will get heated fast. and the results might surprise you

1.  I have nothing against BG CUSTOM TURBO.  The fact remains that as far as I'm concerned they are newcomers to a market established by Cartech, TTI and others.   Notwithstanding that "Brian" seems to know a whole lot about how his older competitors' single kits are made, I'll assume you know that he didn't directly copy his design from anyone.   On the other hand, there really aren't all that many ways of making headers and running pipes in a 5.0 Fox to mount a single on the passenger side--and I still can't see anything so dramatically different in the BG CUSTOM TURBO product photos.

BTW, do you have any aftermarket Windsor cylinder heads?  Should Ford Racing Performance Parts sue builders of such heads because they are interchangable with the factory stuff.  Do you really think all those head builders coincidentally arrived at an interchangable head?  But aren't they "stealing" from FRPP?   

2. First, you were the one asserting it was "obvious" I was "covering for someone" at Vecco. I merely pointed out the flaw in your assumption. Second, your rant doesn't address any of the substantive points I've raised.  The stable kit makers have ignored the street twin market and the unstable ones (including a few Ohio companies) generally haven't hung around long enough to serve the market.  And when Vecco's gone (if it already isn't), then customers who want a durable, a/c, p/s and emissions compatible "complete" kit will have NO CHOICES (at least with Vecco, one COULD gamble on their kit).  Thus, if BG CUSTOM TURBO kills Vecco, they ought to have to serve Vecco's potential customers--isn't that simply fair?

3. You assume facts about Vecco based on BG CUSTOM TURBO's unproven allegations.  Litigating about who did all the work on single turbo Fox Mustangs is pointless.  All of us stand on the shoulders of those who've gone before.   Pro Turbo owes Corky Bell a debt of gratitude because most of their guys learned the single turbo business at Cartech.  Nearly every Ford twin turbo builder copies some of what Mike Sitar did with JY turbos--or is at least "inspired by him."   Ak Miller and Gale Banks were building log manifolds long before any of these current kit makers were even alive!

 Each successive kit builder adds changes or improvements in a gradual evolution of the product.  It takes something really different to be a breakthrough--and that's not what BG CUSTOM TURBO vs. Vecco is about. At least BG CUSTOM TURBO isn't up against some government-backed Chinese company which pays its workers 50-cents a day (of course, I'm sure you only buy Snap-On (tm) tools Vice-Grip (tm) locking pliers and other all-American products).

4. Water-cooling is OEM reliable.  Ford wouldn't have gone to the expense and complexity if it didn't reduce coking.  Certainly race-only kits don't need water-cooled center sectiions, but if one is really offering a daily-driver quality kit, it should take advantage of what virtually all factory-installed turbos over the past 20 years have used to increase reliabliity.  That was a good thing about Vecco's specs--you could get the more durable parts if you wanted to pay extra for them. 

5. See #3 above.  Competition in the market benefits the consumer.  If "X" only builds mild steel kits and "Y" decides to build a slightly better (tighter bends, stainless steel tubing, etc) or even a cheaper one, how does that not improve competition?   Should all the U.S. "parking lift" makers lay around and gripe because the market is flooded with slightly-different Chinese knock-offs? Should they all spend their money on lawyers?  Or should they build value in their own products and work on the next innovation?

If Winfield or Edelbrock or Weiand or Offenhauser had sued anyone else who made a Ford Flathead manifold for two Stromberg 97 after WWII, do you think the aftermarket would be where it is today?  If Hooker or Hedman or Cyclone would have tried to drive Kooks out of the market for "copying" headers, would we be better off?

6. You brought up the subject of "Jesus."  I just thought readers needed a second, more objective, first-hand opinion.  Sorry that I apparently offended your egg-shell sensibilities.  God is love, Bro!

[Scott02GT]

Yes you were being insutling by calling names and just being cocky.  Vecco DID in fact buy a BG CUSTOM TURBO kit, they have proof.  Whether or your not your sick of some soap opera your not involved with doesn't matter to us, it sounds like your involving yourself in a situation that has nothing to do with you. When you buy any one of the kits your knocking, and then have a problem, or a good word, then you can bitch about it in the product review section.  You are nut swinging period, we all can see it, so there is no need to explain yourself.  You have all of 5 posts here, no where near enough to bitch about any site vendor that you have not dealt with.  Do yourself a favor and go to the tech section and learn somthing or contribute some knowledge that is helpfull.  After a couple hundred posts of actually helping this site, then maybe you can hack on companies you have never dealt with and you might get away without being flamed.  Bottom line, your a newbie here, you have not done a damn thing except stir up shit, so expect to be flamed.  You have only heard of BG CUSTOM TURBO because of the last MMFF.  that statement right there proves to every knowledgable member here that you don't know SHIT about the industry.  Stick to reading our magazines

[dr511scj]

Yes you were being insutling by calling names and just being cocky.  Vecco DID in fact buy a BG CUSTOM TURBO kit, they have proof.  Whether or your not your sick of some soap opera your not involved with doesn't matter to us, it sounds like your involving yourself in a situation that has nothing to do with you. When you buy any one of the kits your knocking, and then have a problem, or a good word, then you can bitch about it in the product review section.  You are nut swinging period, we all can see it, so there is no need to explain yourself.  You have all of 5 posts here, no where near enough to bitch about any site vendor that you have not dealt with.  Do yourself a favor and go to the tech section and learn somthing or contribute some knowledge that is helpfull.  After a couple hundred posts of actually helping this site, then maybe you can hack on companies you have never dealt with and you might get away without being flamed.  Bottom line, your a newbie here, you have not done a damn thing except stir up shit, so expect to be flamed.  You have only heard of BG CUSTOM TURBO because of the last MMFF.  that statement right there proves to every knowledgable member here that you don't know SHIT about the industry.  Stick to reading our magazines

1. BG CUSTOM TURBO hasn't presented enough "evidence" to even withstand a motion for summary judgment in a court case, so it's "cocky and arrogant" to assume that your 900+ posts gives you the "industry knowledge" to pre-judge this case.   Everyone who has a "trade dress" or other design infringment claim thinks they've got an open and shut case (ask just Harley-Davidson). 

2.  When BG CUSTOM TURBO or others start commenting publically on the dispute, to the potential detriment of their competitors, then it does become a matter of publc concern.  Thus, by commenting on the hasty treatment of Vecco and the failure of kit manufacturers to build complete twin kits that are compatible with p/s, a/c and smog pumps, I am not inserting myself in a private matter.  So far, no one has made a compelling argument that the "proof" is sufficient to start trashing the business reputation of anyone, much less be the basis for any monetary recovery.   

Perhaps some of these "excperts" on here can explain exactly what makes BG CUSTOM TURBO's single kit such a breakthrough product (and not just another knock-off of some other single kit maker's "design")

3. It's not a fair "review" of twin turbo kits to point out their obvious flaws? Do I have to send Incon, TDC or ITS a check to have the right to comment on their documented failures of delivery? Do I have to buy a TTI or Cartech kit to criticize them for not being compatible with smog pumps, a/c or p/s?  Is it not appropriate to point out that Vecco offered the only current fully-compatible kit?

4.  I would think it would be helpful to product planners to hear that there is indeed a limited market for a OEM durable, off-the-shelf twin turbo Fox kit which is compatible with a/c, p/s and smog. (After all, I read somewhere "We are very interested in hearing anyone's ideas." See  http://www.gaugeplates.com/) When I see various wantabe upstart companies merely duplicating the efforts of TTI, Cartech and Pro (not that any of those companies have effectively served the turbo Mustang marketplace or are unworthy of competition), is it wrong to suggest going in a less-tapped direction?

5. Why is my number of posts relevant? Do you really think that if BG CUSTOM TURBO decides to sue Vecco that the case will be decided by a jury of frequent turbomustang forum "expert" posters?  Or even MM&FF readers?   What is important is that I've raised salient and logical points.   That such points are raised by a "newbie" to this board doesn't make them any less salient or logical.

6. Vecco may indeed be a flawed company. But they deserve better treatment than the rush to judgment here based on the hasty conclusions of a handful of self-appointed experts.

7. Please post ONE INSULT I've made on anyone which wasn't an opinion based in undisputed facts.   BG CUSTOM TURBO does not have the market presence or the longevity of Pro, TTI or Cartech, do they?  Nor do any of the other "supporters" who are critical of Vecco, do they? 

8. I'd enjoy comparing my curriculum vitae with any of the other turbo "experts" on this board regarding who has more knowledge of automotive technology and forced induction.

9. It's not reasonable to assume that just because I'm not aware of every kid hanging out in an old Sunoco station with a TIG, MIG or gas-axe welder and pipe bender who claims to be a "custom" turbo installer that I am wholly ignorant of "the industry."   However, assuming the premise of your assertion, is that any way to treat potential customers?

[Eric88T]

Are you from California?

[dr511scj]

Why? Are you with Primedia?

[Eric88T]

No.  So you are?

[gotageta5oh]

rather than quote all of the useless rambling i will just type a response.

you keep list all of these other companies that have been around for a while. the problem is the only one that seems to always ship on time is TTI. PTK and the other have all had huge problems with customer service. so the fact that you are trying to use them to support your argument is rather amusing.


why do you think BG CUSTOM TURBO is keeping quiet on this for the time being? Why would you share all your evidence to the world on the net when there is possible litigation involved? Talk about overlooking the obvious.

I don't care what you say. It seems that you have an obvious personal interest in all of this. Why else would you join a couple of days ago and then post only in this thread?


I don't care what vecco's e-bay rating is. big deal. leave them a voice mail or an e-mail and see how long it takes for them to get back to you. Myself as well as others left countless numbers of voice mails and e-mails to them and are still waiting for a response. I've been waiting for over 2.5 years.


If you want a twin turbo kit with oem reliability you better find a car with one from the factory because that is the only way that you will ever find that.

I am still waiting for you to make any claims or posts with undisputed facts. It's funny how you try to point that out about others posts yet you fail to do the same. All of your posts have been filled with nothing more that bullshit and opinion, which both carry the same weight.

as for 6. trust me you aren't going to say anything that will offend me. however i must point out that yes you brought it up. I didn't say anything about it. My sig might, but I didn't. And you used the perfect word in your statement "opinion". need i say more?

[RoadW3]

This reply wont have anything to do with the real discussion at hand, but here it is anyways.

I get so tired of reading about post counts.  About being a newb.  About not being allowed to "know" anything about turbo's or forced induction.  That is so damn played out.  It is in 3/4's of the posts I read.  I understand about the search aspect, but who cares about post counts?  Or if you are a newb or not? That doesn't mean your a dumbass who does not know shit from shinola.  I read stuff on this site months before I registered, and I have been into building cars and using superchargers for years before I even heard of this site.  So I guess that makes me unqualified to post?  What I should do is just reply to every post and get my post count count to like 10,000.  Of course then I would be a "post whore".  Just cannot win for losing.

dr511scj, I understand where you are coming from.  The points you have made are valid and should be reviewed if and when the time comes to any type of litigation.  Also you made another good point, battling in court only serves one purpose... to make attorneys allot of money.  It will serve no other purpose and will not benefit the consumers in any way.  It ends up hurting the consumer with higher retail prices.

Scott02GT, I think BG CUSTOM TURBO stuff sells mainly from word of mouth.  I have spoken with Brian and he also told me that he does allot of custom work.  Vecco cannot compete with that.  Sure they churn out a stainless steel ready to ship kit with no wait but that is it.  There is no custom work, no mock up, and you take the chance the stuff might or might not fit.  I personally opted to buy BG CUSTOM TURBO.  I could have purchased Vecco but spend the few hundred dollars more and still bought BG CUSTOM TURBO.  I did not buy them because they were a site supporter, I bought them because of the reviews I have read about them.  I will write my own review when I receive the parts I ordered from my own experience.

Eric

[Scott02GT]

This reply wont have anything to do with the real discussion at hand, but here it is anyways.

I get so tired of reading about post counts.  About being a newb.  About not being allowed to "know" anything about turbo's or forced induction.  That is so damn played out.  It is in 3/4's of the posts I read.  I understand about the search aspect, but who cares about post counts?  Or if you are a newb or not? That doesn't mean your a dumbass who does not know shit from shinola.  I read stuff on this site months before I registered, and I have been into building cars and using superchargers for years before I even heard of this site.  So I guess that makes me unqualified to post?  What I should do is just reply to every post and get my post count count to like 10,000.  Of course then I would be a "post whore".  Just cannot win for losing.

dr511scj, I understand where you are coming from.  The points you have made are valid and should be reviewed if and when the time comes to any type of litigation.  Also you made another good point, battling in court only serves one purpose... to make attorneys allot of money.  It will serve no other purpose and will not benefit the consumers in any way.  It ends up hurting the consumer with higher retail prices.

Scott02GT, I think BG CUSTOM TURBO stuff sells mainly from word of mouth.  I have spoken with Brian and he also told me that he does allot of custom work.  Vecco cannot compete with that.  Sure they churn out a stainless steel ready to ship kit with no wait but that is it.  There is no custom work, no mock up, and you take the chance the stuff might or might not fit.  I personally opted to buy BG CUSTOM TURBO.  I could have purchased Vecco but spend the few hundred dollars more and still bought BG CUSTOM TURBO.  I did not buy them because they were a site supporter, I bought them because of the reviews I have read about them.  I will write my own review when I receive the parts I ordered from my own experience.

Eric

If you comment about post counts reffers to me, the point I was makeing has nothing to do with his knowledge, it has to do with coming here out of nowhere and talking a bunch of shit period.  There are always wars here, but there more and more brand new members coming here for the sole purpose of arguing, and that is somthign we do not want.