snow performance methanol injection

[SoL_93GT]

Originally posted by Razor
Boost..thats a loaded question.. I will say if you can run 15 lbs on race gas, you can run 15 lbs on alcohol. It may be a slightly lower timing, but the heat on the charge air will come down big time. On my car I run an additional 11 PSI over stock. Thats 27 vs 16 stock.

And will say this..the reason for the progressive is to improve drivability, help maintain stable air fuel ratios, and provide heavy detonation protection..so you dont "push the gasket out".

The neat thing is how it automatically adjusts pressure based on boost..so you up the boost on your boost controller..you dont touch the controller.. it automatically ups the pressure..you get some cold air, boost spike, waste gate fails..you have something there to help prevent the you know what meltdown..

Your local, when you get ready, get the car here and let me do the kit..that way I can take measurements and such and make a Mustang kit. Just like the GN, TTA, Sy/Ty, and WRX kits i'm working on.

I've actually thinking of jumping the fence and getting a notch with a 63/66/70 turbo..nice street car Just to think..I've owned a total of 12 Mustangs..but since 1992..been on the GM side.

11.6 no longer is fast enough, and dont want to cut up the Bird for a cage..let alone mod a perfect stock motor.. thats another story

See ya next thursday nite at BMP(desoto), last track night..

Last track night?  When do they start up again?  I'm not sure if I'll be able to make that, I need to put it on the dyno and make sure its got a safe tune, if I get my boost creep problem fixed and the plugs look ok then I might go.  I just wanted to make sure I'm not running lean before I run it at the track.  I'll definately get with you to do a kit for my car, can't say right now when that will be but I'll let you know.  I've spent about $18k cash on my car within the last couple months so my wife is on the verge of murdering me in my sleep so we'll see (We're trying to save for a house).  And a funny thing is I still have the stock clutch in the car, even though it only has 8000 miles on it, I'm sure it's not gonna be too happy with a 400+ hp motor.


Briane

[SoL_93GT]

Originally posted by CopMagnet
Did Julio Mention his bad ass TTA? lol!

Yeah I've seen it a couple times, its sweet.  Hey how is your car coming along?  

Briane

[Razor]

Originally posted by SoL_93GT
Last track night?  When do they start up again?  I'm not sure if I'll be able to make that, I need to put it on the dyno and make sure its got a safe tune, if I get my boost creep problem fixed and the plugs look ok then I might go.  I just wanted to make sure I'm not running lean before I run it at the track.  I'll definately get with you to do a kit for my car, can't say right now when that will be but I'll let you know.  I've spent about $18k cash on my car within the last couple months so my wife is on the verge of murdering me in my sleep so we'll see (We're trying to save for a house).  And a funny thing is I still have the stock clutch in the car, even though it only has 8000 miles on it, I'm sure it's not gonna be too happy with a 400+ hp motor.

Briane

Just be careful with it. Things can happen really fast when things are out of tune..keep the pressure down till you have alky or run 100+ octane stuff.

If ya can make it great... if not Jan 10th? the TR track day?

[SoL_93GT]

Originally posted by Razor
Just be careful with it. Things can happen really fast when things are out of tune..keep the pressure down till you have alky or run 100+ octane stuff.

If ya can make it great... if not Jan 10th? the TR track day?

Yeah I'll let you know, I gotta get this damn boost creep problem fixed.  I thought the wastegate was defective but I just tried another one and it does the same thing.  I'm gonna take it over to Race Related in Clearwater in the next couple days and get the mufflers welded up.  I doubt it's creeping because I have no backpressure but I'm running out of ideas.

Briane

[Razor]

Boost creep is typically related to the puck seal/regulation. What kind of waste gate are you running, an how bad is it really. Is it same PSI on 1,2 then creeps up on third?

Are you using an electronic boost controller, or a little cheap MBC?

If you have an external gate, and the spring is too tight, you may not be able and regulate lower boost level.

I have some turbo knowledge, if I can help..hollar.

Julio

I welcome boost creep

[JeffFoster]

Cool.  I hope to do the same turbo kit as Braines car - the only difference will be that I have an AOD *ACK* and he has a T-5 *ALMOST ACK *  Your kit sounds great - I would be interested in seeing how the install looks on Brianes stang.

Seems to be a central Florida thread going here  Why is it that the people with the hottest weather and most humidity want to run turbos?

Jeff
http://www.stangonline.com

[SoL_93GT]

Originally posted by Razor

I welcome boost creep

LOL I would too if I had alky. I'm using a Tial 38mm with no boost controller (for now, I have a mbc but not using it) I've tried 4 and 7 lb springs in the wastegate and it does the same with both.  It will hit the deired boost at 3000 rpm then creep up to 12 lbs by 5000 rpm.  I shut it off there so I don't blow the gaskets, so I really don't know how high it will creep.  

Briane

[CopMagnet]

Originally posted by SoL_93GT
Yeah I've seen it a couple times, its sweet.  Hey how is your car coming along?  

Briane

It's getting there, sending off the last payment tomorrow to get the intercooler / wastegate, etc... down here. I still have about a grand in other parts to buy as well then it should be hitting the streets. (Depends on Santa, lol)...

I only have a couple nights a week if that to work on it, but it's headed to Dragins shop finally this weekend for the 8 pt.

Now I still need a radiator, Edelbrock lower, pulleys, exhaust, and ignition, low impedence injectors, and all of the small stuff. Hopefully I pick up my head gaskets monday and she'll start looking like a running car again!

[CopMagnet]

this was before:

[Razor]

Tease is rite.. I want one of those

hehe

Julio

[034V]

Ok I'm the last person to bash Snow Performance or the kit mentioned above, but has anyone tackled a DIY alky kit similar to these, and not used a water solenoid?? The reason I'm asking is neither of the kits mentioned have one (or at least I didnt see one).. I know when I fab'd my kit, it was based off of this kit. I first used the non solenoid route and placed the tank in the trunk, but when the pump was active it pressurized the line so much it would take about 20 seconds to bleed off when the pump shut off.. Granted it worked well but I did notice a bunch of pool up.. I now use a water solenoid and have it placed about 10-15 inches from the pipe to the TB and it's flawless in performance.. What are your thoughts on this guys??


-Lance

[Snipe656]

Originally posted by Carson
Thats fine and I agree with the DIY stuff maybe this should go to the JY DIY section rather than feedback
It just really doesn't seem like feed back at all
I do think is shoul be in a tech section or something though

I'd have to agree on that one

[Razor]

Originally posted by mod95snake
Ok I'm the last person to bash Snow Performance or the kit mentioned above, but has anyone tackled a DIY alky kit similar to these, and not used a water solenoid?? The reason I'm asking is neither of the kits mentioned have one (or at least I didnt see one).. I know when I fab'd my kit, it was based off of this kit. I first used the non solenoid route and placed the tank in the trunk, but when the pump was active it pressurized the line so much it would take about 20 seconds to bleed off when the pump shut off.. Granted it worked well but I did notice a bunch of pool up.. I now use a water solenoid and have it placed about 10-15 inches from the pipe to the TB and it's flawless in performance.. What are your thoughts on this guys??


-Lance

Lance, the only application I find that need the selenoid are.. whereas the nozzle is placed after throttle body where a vacuum signal is present, when you use an open tip nozzle like a NOS nozzle, and when the nozzle is placed lower than the feed tank. if non of those conditions are met.. then its not needed.

I did a kit for a 2002 Denali with a whipple..it needed the selenoid. On the Buicks.. not needed.. unless you have an 84-85 non IC motor, whereas the TB is by the air box...

I always when in doubt have the customer try without, worst case is they need one. And then a little more $$$. thats about it. To me its just one more part to fail if not needed.. your better off.

The reason I made the progressive controller was to get the pump going at 3 PSI so lines would be filled. Many of my customers who have switched over have had issues with the hobbs switches.. I dont use them.

My .02

[Razor]

Wanted to add a side note using the Hago nozzle with screens..

The filter area on the back of the nozzle has a 120 micron mesh, and a very small surface area, doesn't take very much to clog.. hence why I use an inline filter to prevent nozzle clogging. And why I dont use rubber hose that can/may come apart and clog the nozzle. Clogged nozzle=no spray.

Also personally.. I dont get the water deal..I dont make anywhere near the power I do running high concentrations of methanol...

Lance spray some methanol straight.. post your findings. I bet you will feel a seat of the pants difference.. just dont keep the stuff in your system if the lines are rubber.

Cheers :worship:

hehe

[034V]

Cool, thanx for the info. I have tried the methanol alone and it does make a difference. Also it allows for a more of a mixture on the A/F.. The boost switch I use on my car is a pool heater pressure switch availiable at Leslies Pool Supply (P#-3902) for about $20.00.. So far it works great.. Also a full throttle switch is used for a default.. Thanx again for the replies and info.


-Lance

[SoL_93GT]

Originally posted by CopMagnet
It's getting there, sending off the last payment tomorrow to get the intercooler / wastegate, etc... down here. I still have about a grand in other parts to buy as well then it should be hitting the streets. (Depends on Santa, lol)...

I only have a couple nights a week if that to work on it, but it's headed to Dragins shop finally this weekend for the 8 pt.

Now I still need a radiator, Edelbrock lower, pulleys, exhaust, and ignition, low impedence injectors, and all of the small stuff. Hopefully I pick up my head gaskets monday and she'll start looking like a running car again!

Looks good, that thing is gonna fly, I'm jealous (stock motor). Keep us updated on how it goes.  Good luck.

Briane

[SNEAKY]

TTT

just doing some research and thought this was a good thread that may do somebody else some good.

[Turbostangman]

I'm putting together two water injection systems right now. One for the notch and one for a friends SRT-4.

The main thing I will address is the need for the solenoid. In place of one I am using a one way check valve with a cracking opressure of 10psig. When the pump activates and the pressure between the pump and the valve exceeds 10psi, it opens. It also prevents water being drawn in when placed after the TB like was stated earlier.

The other use I see for the valve if it is a durable fast opening valve like used in electronic boost controllers, is for variable flow control by running it on a duty cycle, just like a boost controler. But this quickly puts you into the realm above a base DIY kit.

There have been a ton of people who have done there own DIY water injection systems with very possitive results. The SNow system also appears to work very well also. The choice comes down to how you feel about doing it yourself vs spending a little more.

[SNEAKY]

Originally posted by Turbostangman

There have been a ton of people who have done there own DIY water injection systems with very possitive results. The SNow system also appears to work very well also. The choice comes down to how you feel about doing it yourself vs spending a little more.

that is what i am considering, i am pretty good at fab work, and scavaging, but i think this is something i would just rather buy.

[Razor]

If you understand the way it works.. then the choices are easy.

You always get what you pay for. A water injection system can be made out of a windshield washer pump and a simple nozzle. triggered of of a simple pressure switch. total cost if your resourceful under 50 bucks. Does it work.. sure. For how long.. dunno.

A set of head gaskets are cheap as well.. the labor is the problem.

Do your homework and research. You'll then rest easy with your decisions. Pay attention to air fuel ratio when your system is spraying.. keep those lean and mean, you'll make it quicker down the track. And the juggling of turnon points, vs nozzle flow, vs drivability.. will become clear.

Solenoids, check valves, and such are not needed on most applications. I have yet to sell a check valve...

PS..ditch the water.. it doesnt make nearly as much power as straight methanol. Proven.

I have dyno pulls on both, on various cars, straight makes more HP hands down over any mix. Make your system run both.. test.. and the results will be clear.

HTH

[19COBRA93]

I'd like to say that I'm an alcohol injection freak.  My car would be miles away from where it's at now (power wise) if it weren't for a little (alot) of the alky.

I consider it my little secret/advantage around here though, so I have been keeping it on the DL.  I mean, everyone knows I have it, but I have been talking it up much less than I used to.

[DASHIP]

I am running a water-only injection system because I want to be able to keep the same tune-up whether I am running pump gas or race gas.  When at the track, I use race gas with no water injection.  When on the street, I use pump gas with water injection.  I also designed it to be a water-only system because I was invited to the HotRod Pump Gas Drags, which allowed only water injection.

I use a custom designed system.  It uses a 3-gallon aluminum fuel tank to hold the water and an aeromotive fuel filter to filter the water before the pump.  The pump is a very large 150psi shure-flow diaphram pump.  The pump feeds two water injectors (very similar to fuel injectors) that feed 4 large nozzles.  The water injectors are controlled by an Aquamist MF2 computer that provides a 3D map for the water injection, based on RPM and MAP.  I have my system set to start injection at 5psi, and it increases injection with RPM and boost.  The system is a constant pressure system, similar to a returnless EFI system.  When the pump is turned on, it pumps until the system is pressurized to 150psi, then it shuts off.  There is an accumulator in-line between the pump and the injectotrs to help maintain line pressure.

I have found that the water displaces some air/fuel, and will result in about a 7% drop in horsepower for my application (I am injecting quite a bit of water though).  Interestingly, I found I could run 22 psi boost on 93-octane pump gas with water injection only, on my 8.25:1 CR motor.  I have not tried to go higher than 22psi yet.  I measured 1,005 RWHP with race gas @ 20 psi, and 935 RWHP with 93-octane + water at 20psi.

Your mileage may vary.

[Razor]

Daship,
We run quite a few motors on the dyno with methanol injection on top of C16 with no ill effects. I have quite a few customers that run it at the track and it helps suppress detonation that the C16 didnt cover up.

I understand your system will not allow you to run straight alcohol due to the injectors and aluminum. Shame, bet you could pickup an easy 30-40 RWHP just by using it on top of the race gas.

Too much water kills power since water doesnt burn. It wont detonate, but power drops off big time. Especially when you start getting aggressive with it.

I never shut my system off race gas or pump gas. Its like cancelling your insurance policy.. no need to.

HTH

[SNEAKY]

found a new snows kit for 200 with the progressive controler. never installed.

[DASHIP]

Razor,

Yeah, it's not that I don't like alcohol, it's just that I want to be able to use the same tune-up on race and pump gas.  Also, the Hot Rod Pump Gas Drags doesn't allow injection of anything other than water.  I don't want to be relying on my water injection system at the track either (just one more thing that can go wrong).

I'm pretty sure my injectors are compatible with alcohol.  Are you saying that aluminum is not?  Will aluminum corrode/react with alcohol?  What about windshield washer fluid?