Is my turbo too big?

[DASHIP]

85Iroc... ROFL...

When I saw the original post with a 1.32 A/R on a 302... I thought good grief...  I was hoping you were running a bunch of NO2.  That might actually make a decent combo, if you could keep it together.

I agree with selling the turbo and getting one that fits your combo.  I don't think you'll ever be happy with this turbo, because you'll always be leaving performance on the table compared to a properly matched turbo.

[Gen1SVE]

Ok here is what I am dealing with.  Berfore the car was tuned it spooled on the trans brake as seen in the below video. 

 http://videos.streetfire.net/video/Mikes-Turbo-Mustang-Testing-transbrake_113133.htm   

Now as one can see it did not take that long to reach 10lbs and it was climbing fast.  My issue is I have no idea what the tune was to make it spool like it did.  Since then it has been tuned for driveability and WOT.  We ran out of time to set up the spool and I am trying to set that up myself.  I am working to match the spool like it did in the video.  Nothing but the fuel, (92 oct during video, c-16+93 currently) and the tune has been changed since the video.  But it is spooling slower.  It was popping in the video and If one on here can identify the poping as a plug fouled, too much, too little fuel, or too much or too little timing that would be great.  I also had the hood open in the video, cool air= quicker spool? 

Again I know a larger engine, more compression, or smaller turbo would also help, but take a look at the video, it is spooling well enough for me in the video why not now?  (Cliff notes go here)   It starts to spool at 3k.  My timing @ 3k is 38 degrees until 6psi then it is 28 degrees until 9psi.  Air fuel is in the 12.20 range and the VE is around 77% in the same RPM and PSI range.  Thank you.

[63T-Bolt]

I am going to say you need to lean it out under light loads (sub 6 psi) now that you have C16 mixed in the fuel.  I'd say mid 13's A/F anything below 6 psi and then lower it back down into the 12's as it goes higher and you will get the results your wanting.

[roozterdvx]

I'd say 11.5-12.0 A/F at boost...and dump some timing while on the transbrake to get the exhaust hot

are you running a 2-step on the transbrake?

[Gen1SVE]

Yes I have a 2- step on the T-Brake.  Thank's guys these are the suggestions I am looking for.

[slimtastic]

Ok here is what I am dealing with.  Berfore the car was tuned it spooled on the trans brake as seen in the below video. 

 http://videos.streetfire.net/video/Mikes-Turbo-Mustang-Testing-transbrake_113133.htm   

Now as one can see it did not take that long to reach 10lbs and it was climbing fast.  My issue is I have no idea what the tune was to make it spool like it did.  Since then it has been tuned for driveability and WOT.  We ran out of time to set up the spool and I am trying to set that up myself.  I am working to match the spool like it did in the video.  Nothing but the fuel, (92 oct during video, c-16+93 currently) and the tune has been changed since the video.  But it is spooling slower.  It was popping in the video and If one on here can identify the poping as a plug fouled, too much, too little fuel, or too much or too little timing that would be great.  I also had the hood open in the video, cool air= quicker spool? 

Again I know a larger engine, more compression, or smaller turbo would also help, but take a look at the video, it is spooling well enough for me in the video why not now?  (Cliff notes go here)   It starts to spool at 3k.  My timing @ 3k is 38 degrees until 6psi then it is 28 degrees until 9psi.  Air fuel is in the 12.20 range and the VE is around 77% in the same RPM and PSI range.  Thank you.

for timing id knock the timing  in inital boost wayyyy down to 10-15 degrees....or less depending on how easily you can roll over the rated stall. knock the timing down  and keep the afr in the 12.0-12.5 on the "spoolup" stage of launching.... thatll kick your turbo in the ass!

[Gen1SVE]

This weekend I was on a quest to verify no pre turbo exhaust leaks.  I found one a bb could fit through.  It was out of sight near the collector.  When I made my headers I used a stick welder and stainless for the 304 stainless tubing I used.  There was a hole that I assume was filled with slag until a few heat/boost cycles kicked it out.  I have since got my Sincrowave 300 running.  I went over every inch of weld on the pre turbo side and found no other leaks.  I did not have a chance to test the spool up after the fix.  I am assuming it would help as I understand on small engine/large turbo combos any leak will greatly increase spool time.  Thoughts?

[Drlee50]

for timing id knock the timing  in inital boost wayyyy down to 10-15 degrees....or less depending on how easily you can roll over the rated stall. knock the timing down  and keep the afr in the 12.0-12.5 on the "spoolup" stage of launching.... thatll kick your turbo in the ass!

actually with an automatic you want to ADD timing to get it to spool up. 30 degrees + depending on your combo.

[Paradise Racing]

The biggest problem I see in situations like this is that people think that they can spool a turbo with just a transbrake. Sorry but you cant.

You will need to put the car on a transbrake along with a 2 step and a timing "retard" mode. You will have to pull -10 to -15 degrees.

Timing retard creates load, load creates boost!!!

Reality is, if its a drag car makes no difference how you get it to spool but you can make it spool!!!

Dont beleive me??? Then why can I spool a S480 T6 1.32 with a 146 CI 4 cylinder???

If I can, you can too. Please let me know if I can help.

Luis

[331Turbo94GT]

The biggest problem I see in situations like this is that people think that they can spool a turbo with just a transbrake. Sorry but you cant.

You will need to put the car on a transbrake along with a 2 step and a timing "retard" mode. You will have to pull -10 to -15 degrees.

Timing retard creates load, load creates boost!!!

Reality is, if its a drag car makes no difference how you get it to spool but you can make it spool!!!

Dont beleive me??? Then why can I spool a S480 T6 1.32 with a 146 CI 4 cylinder???

If I can, you can too. Please let me know if I can help.

Luis

I agree with you on that, especially about using the 2-step in conjunction with the trans brake.

By the way, nice meeting you at Eric's wedding about a week ago!

[Paradise Racing]

Hey it was nice to meet you too!!! Remember, now you have someone around the corner that can help!!!

[RacinRadials]

You definatly want to add timing while on the 2 step and transbrake. You only pull timing during the spool up if you have a clutch. You can lean out the O2 and add timing to get it spooled and then pull it back at a set psi. Been doing this for about 10 years now with turbo's on automatics. But you also have to have just the right converter as well. We have always used Frank Lupo's Dynamic Converters and he has always been right on.

Jesse Lambert

[Gen1SVE]

Jesse-  I am using Frank Lupo's converter.  It does let me spool but might be a little loose up top.  I just want it to spool quicker, like in the vid above. Once I get my spool set up I'll be happy.   If I had to do it again I would have gone with a 8.5-9:1 331, not a 8:1 306.

[Paradise Racing]

You definatly want to add timing while on the 2 step and transbrake. You only pull timing during the spool up if you have a clutch. You can lean out the O2 and add timing to get it spooled and then pull it back at a set psi. Been doing this for about 10 years now with turbo's on automatics. But you also have to have just the right converter as well. We have always used Frank Lupo's Dynamic Converters and he has always been right on.

Jesse Lambert

Hi Jesse, I must say I have zero experience in automatics. I felt like it would be the same principal on transbrake but I could be wrong. If you get a break and dont mind, would you PM me a little discription of why pulling timing wouldnt work? Just curious!!!

Thanks!!!

Luis

[Drlee50]

you need torque to spin the converter and more timing= more tq with the auto.  run 40 degrees up to 0  vac and slowly pull the timing out as boost comes on.  should do ALOT better.   add in the 2 step and you will increase the fuel in the turbine and aid spool as well

RR-you were pretty adamant about pulling timing and then said you didnt know anything about automatics??  complete opposites there man. there are a couple threads i can think of that explain all the details. 

[RacinRadials]

Jesse-  I am using Frank Lupo's converter.  It does let me spool but might be a little loose up top.  I just want it to spool quicker, like in the vid above. Once I get my spool set up I'll be happy.   If I had to do it again I would have gone with a 8.5-9:1 331, not a 8:1 306.

Are you able to check your converter slippage. Engine rpm vs. driveshaft rpm? that will tell you where you are with the converter. You should try using a two step when you go into the pre stage beem. Set the rpm to what your cars brakes will hold with out rolling. This will enable you to be wide open throttle in the prestage beem then when the rpm/boost is climbing ease off of the break and light the stage beam. Then go to the transbrake and the boost/rpm will come up alot quicker. I know its kind of confusing but it works. I run 2 "transbrake" buttons side by side for this, one is the two step the other is the actual transbrake.

[Gen1SVE]

I do not have any way to calculate the converter slippage except for the dyno vids.  In thier case you can only see that it is slipping more as the power increases.  The "stall" RPM increases with each addition of boost/power.   Also the max MPH obtained at 7k decreases as the power increases.  I am running the two step and the transbrake on the same circut, I use the foot brake and give as much throttle as I can until I trip the stage bean then go to the trans brake and two step.  Sounds like a 3-step might be better?  Currently during spool I have 12.5 A/F ratio, 38 degrees of timing.  2 step is set to 4700 where the car is making 13psi.  I am going to increase the two step rpm to 4900 as the car hooked well @ 4700 and 13psi.  Also in the above video the hood is open and I am pulling cold air into the turbo inlet.  I have finished a cold air box that pulls air from the headlight area, I just need to put the finishing touches on it so it seals where the body meets the box.  I also have not tested the spool with the bb sized exhaust leak patched up.  Hopefully these changes will make a noticible difference.    Any and all other tips are appreciated. 

[Robert1320]

Give me a ring today.  We help another, "hard to spool guy", get where he needed to be!

[Gen1SVE]

Robert- Thank you!!

[Robert1320]

Robert- Thank you!!

No problem!  I hope a couple of the ideas help! 

[roozterdvx]

Okay...not trying to hijack this thread but....

which is it?

Add, or Retard timing with an automatic?

[Drlee50]

add timing to improve spool up with auto-- retard with manual trans

[Robert1320]

add timing to improve spool up with auto-- retard with manual trans

Correct!

[Gen1SVE]

I have completed the Cold air box, I plan on finding a 3 step so I can stage with 5-6 lbs before going to the brake, and I installed a 3-G altinator with Mark VIII Fan.  Hopefully these changes along with the pre turbo leak fixed will make a noticible difference.

[Robert1320]

Nice !