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Non intercooler setup

Discussion in 'Turbo Tech Questions' started by Novi347, Jun 20, 2024.

  1. Forcefed86

    Joined:
    Nov 24, 2005

    You don’t want to spray any mixes with methanol on bare alum intercooler fins is all. It will corrode the thin alum.

    I sprayed distilled water on a lot of top mount IC setups. A windshield washer pump and zip-tied vacuum line with spray paint can nozzles works surprisingly well and costs almost nothing. Can fog a small amount pre-turbo that way as well. Then have a separate line with 100% meth sprayed with a “Real kit” at the throttle body.
     
  2. Forcefed86

    Joined:
    Nov 24, 2005
    Calculator is only as good as the data you put in it. If you have all the data correct, its pretty spot on in my experience. Which calc are you using and what parameters did you input? What are you trying to see?

    The inlet air temp is pretty important as it compounds when compressed. IE a 20* difference in inlet air temps will make more than a 20* difference in outlet temps.

    My turbos are hung out up high in free air. So about as ideal as you can get for inlet temps. Even then, It pulls hotter than ambient air off the track/road surface. Under hood temps can get nutty.

    If you want to see how efficient your IC is, you can use this calc.

    https://calculator.academy/intercooler-efficiency-calculator/
     
  3. saltfever

    Joined:
    Nov 15, 2007
    Brian, what kind of sensor, where is it located, and how long a time is your pull?
     
  4. Briansshop

    Joined:
    Dec 12, 2006
    GM sensor in a Wilson 4 barrel TB. Turbos are fed at the grill,no IC. W/M 50/50 sprayed at 10% of fuel. Only tuning on the street ATM,so no long pulls,just up 100 mph, so far on 10psi. I'm seeing IATs of 110-118*

    I used the air charge temp calc out of curiosity,was just surprised it reported so high. I used 90* for inlet temp.
     
  5. Forcefed86

    Joined:
    Nov 24, 2005
    Your turbo could be a little more efficient than 70%. Or the elevation could be off a tad? But there’s no escaping it takes X amount of heat to compress Y amount of air to a specific pressure.

    Sounds like the sensor is just wetted and reporting false cool temps. Pretty much the point I was trying to make regarding all the AUX injection stuff. You simply can’t trust the IAT when its wet. If the sensor is down stream of the TBI or the water/meth… its gonna be wet and gives totally bunk data. You will have increased knock protection for sure, but don’t tune the car based off false IAT data.
     
  6. saltfever

    Joined:
    Nov 15, 2007
    Brian, all sensors have a "time constant". It takes time for them to come up to temp to report an actual value. Some of the GM sensors are a bit slow so look up your part number to see its time constant. For example my Delphi sensors take 18-24 seconds to reach actual temps! That is why I asked how long was your pull. On the street I doubt a short pull is enough time to record actual temps.
     
  7. saltfever

    Joined:
    Nov 15, 2007
    Mr. Forcefed, I didn't think the corrosiveness of methanol had to be mentioned on this site. I only suggested water on the fins.
     
  8. Briansshop

    Joined:
    Dec 12, 2006

    The IAT readings don't change when the W/M turns on,at least not by more than a few degrees. I can be cruising with IATs of 115* and on a short pull they might drop to 110-112*. The sensor just might not be getting hit with the W/M. I know 2 other cars I've had both saw big temp drops as soon as the W/M started,they both had the sensor in an intake runner so I know they were getting wet.

    Turbos are 2x BW 366s so at 10psi I they aren't working too hard. 427 SBF
     
  9. saltfever

    Joined:
    Nov 15, 2007
    What was different on those cars compared to the one now. Where they different sensors?
     
  10. Briansshop

    Joined:
    Dec 12, 2006
    You've got me thinking,now that I pulled up a pic, it does look like the sensor is shielded on the Wilson TB. The other 2 cars, the sensor was mounted in a lower intake runner,definitely more in the path.

    [​IMG]#ad

    [​IMG]#ad
     
  11. Forcefed86

    Joined:
    Nov 24, 2005
    I run the larger G3 78/75s on a 5.3. And my other setup is twin 64mm gt35s. At 15lbs they both basically make the same charge temps (no water meth). I thought the larger turbo may make less heat. Which is one of the reasons I went with them. They both have pretty identical charge temps as at like pressures as long as the compressor eff isn't WAAY off the map. At 20+lbs I'm sure the 78's will make less heat. But at moderate boost they still both maxed a 255 gm IAT well before the 1/8th. There's just no way you can make much under 200*, even at 10lbs. So something's off IMO.

    upload_2024-7-12_11-6-15.png #ad
     
    Briansshop likes this.
  12. B E N

    Joined:
    Nov 22, 2016
    I only see a couple degrees of drop on my Mustang on a longer run (whipple supercharged). But I saw temp rise without the WM kit, it is also running through a water/air intercooler and I am using a pretty small WM injector size. I am betting the temperature the sensor is seeing is heavily regulated by the intercooler since that is directly before the IAT sensor.

    Brian have you run yours without the WM to see how the temp changes without it? Matchbot will calculate theoretical compressor discharge temp on those turbos:
    upload_2024-7-13_8-30-40.png #ad


    My input numbers aren't perfect, I just setup the displacement and boost number with an ambient temp of 75. You could make it a little more precise.

    You would get similar numbers with an ideal gas law calc, turbo size doesn't effect it much unless you get way out there on efficiency, even if the turbo is making heat contact time is low. So most of what you are seeing is heat from compression.
     
    Last edited: Jul 13, 2024
    Briansshop likes this.
  13. Briansshop

    Joined:
    Dec 12, 2006
    Thanks,Ben. I ran it at first without the W/M, but no real pulls long enough to get the temps up. Thinking I'll try another IAT,or a different mounting location.

    At 10psi this thing is getting my attention... 3rd gear pull at about 60% TPS spun the tires at 70 mph. LOL!
     
    Pro-SC, B E N and Punk.Kaos like this.
  14. Forcefed86

    Joined:
    Nov 24, 2005
    The nitto drag radials are life savers IMO.

    3x the life of a MT drag radial and they don’t feather/ball up on asphalt and try to kill ya like the softer radials do.
     
    B E N, mld54 and Punk.Kaos like this.
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