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On3 kits, explorer fead

Discussion in 'Newbie and Basic Turbo Tech Forum' started by ummduh, Oct 1, 2020.

  1. ummduh

    Nov 19, 2016
    Kinda what I was starting to think. I really have no reference to judge what kind of pump flow I need, just feels tight I guess.

    I have a kirban fpr on order.

    From what I have found, injector flow isn't necessarily linear with pressure rise.. maybe close, but just have to do it and figure it out.

    I'm swapping leaf perches right now trying to get the ujoint angles out of clown status...
  2. bbi_turbos

    Dec 8, 2021
    Injector flow raises to the pressure squared. So to double the flow you have to quadruple the pressure. There is a point of diminishing returns, but its out of the realm of gas engines.
  3. B E N

    Nov 22, 2016
    This calculator will tell you what your flow rate change is: https://www.rcfuelinjection.com/technical

    Using that calc says that the 52 lb injectors are flowing more like 44's at your pressure (they are rated at 58 psi).
  4. ummduh

    Nov 19, 2016

    Thanks for that link. I spent some time looking and never came up with that. I guess I never hit the magic terms?


    Like I said earlier, kirban fpr on order. I'll bump to 58 base. Obviously I have a couple other issues to work out yet.

    From the data you posted about these injectors I assumed they were rated 62 @43psi. (Seems to say 39psi) Do I just not understand what I'm looking at?

  5. B E N

    Nov 22, 2016
    You got it right, I am screwed up.
  6. ummduh

    Nov 19, 2016
    Put the exhaust back together. Engine moved a lot with the new mounts.

    If you make fun of my welding I'll... I don't know. I'm booger blasting with a flux core 140 Lincoln.

    Also fixed the trans mount. Just plugging away when time permits.

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    Pro-SC likes this.
  7. ummduh

    Nov 19, 2016
    Hell I never posted my drive line angle fixes. Like I said, plugging away as time permits.

    Old vs new
    Put the pinion -3 deg, spent a long time reading, came to no concrete conclusions, so I winged it like usual. We'll see how it works out.

    Also swaped in remflex header gaskets and ground the warped header down to s reasonable flatness.

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    Last edited: Feb 10, 2023
  8. Russell

    Jan 13, 2019
    Welds look good from my house! As long as they hold you are fine. If they don't you have a welder try again! I put some ugly welds on an O2 bung today. I like to blame laying on the ground under the car. I think they would have looked better if I did it on the beach, but truth is I am not very good.
    bbi_turbos and ummduh like this.
  9. ummduh

    Nov 19, 2016
    Got it out for the first time today. Did good, but I think my fuel went bad over the winter. Ran great to begin with but got progressively worse over an hour or so. Lots of missing and bogging. I guess I'll try to burn through what I have in the tank (it was full, lol) and change the fuel filter and go from there. Runs OK under moderate load, but is definitely low on powa. My base FP also drifted after some run time, so either it's the pump heating up and dropping psi, or fuel filter? It does raise with boost reference though..

    Next year I guess I'll try a different approach, assuming that is the problem.. most likely it is.
  10. ummduh

    Nov 19, 2016
    Well, with little enthusiasm so far this year...

    I drained out the e85 mostly, and dumped 5 gal fresh in. Didn't help a whole lot. I also dumped a can of seafoam in the tank.

    Then today, I drove it about an hour and went and got another 10G in it.

    It's still missing pretty bad at low load, and breaking up pretty bad, but under WOT it's pretty healthy.

    Good news is with a 58psi base, I'm only seeing a 60% DC (pig rich too, 10.2afr gas) at 5.8psi and 6200rpm.

    I'm considering either buying a new set of 80's of some flavor (FID are on the radar), or just sending these out to be cleaned.
    Or more likely, buying the new 80's, AND sending these out, then putting them in my f250 instead as I need injectors for that too.

    I need to change the oil and get some more runtime on it, but it sure seemed to get worse as I put time on it. Live and learn, that was too long to sit not running with e85.

    edit: unless the higher base is causing the problems? seems it was alluded to that these injectors may not like 58 psi base? Not sure what problems would arise.
    Last edited: Jun 5, 2023
  11. B E N

    Nov 22, 2016
    The higher pressure shouldn't hurt anything. Deka 80 at 58 psi are going to act something like 92lbs injectors, which is really a lot for a stockish 5.0, getting it to idle well and take low speed throttle might be a little tricky. 60s might be a better bet if you can find a set inexpensively.

    If you are running fine at WOT but having trouble down low there is a chance you have an air metering problem, either a vac leak (check that all your clamps are still tight, verify you didn't have a hose blow loose, or blow out a gasket) or unhappy MAF position. I looked to see if you are still running maf, I can't tell. If you are where is it located? They don't function real well if they are right before or after a bend.

    Have you pulled plugs to take a look? Any oil in coolant or other signs of head gasket distress? The iron GT40 heads are known to be subpar for head gasket clamping under boost.
    TTF/Ken likes this.
  12. ummduh

    Nov 19, 2016
    hmmm, ya know, I did have the upper intake off several times. I hadn't even considered a vacuum leak cuz I kinda thought I'd see it in the data, but I suppose I could be off base on that.

    I'll check for vacuum leaks tonight hopefully.
    I had the plugs out over the winter and they look great. Water and oil look great, other than the oil being thin.

    I'm speed density.
  13. ummduh

    Nov 19, 2016
    Well can't find any sign of a vacuum leak.

    It runs well initially, and then gradually gets worse. And if I change its environment, like opening a vacuum line, it stops missing for a little bit, but then again descends into missing again. But then seal that vacuum leak back up, and it'll work for a short bit before missing again.

    I ordered a set of plugs (ngk tr55, maybe i screwed one up and didn't realize it?) for it, and I will go back over all the plug wires.They do get pretty toasty, not sure how much the heat shield wrap actually helps.

    Only other thing I can think of is maybe I'm running into these injectors min pulse width with the new base pressure? They're down to like 1.3ms at idle now. The data sheet posted for these seem to say min PW is ~0.49ms though. This idea doesn't seem plausible as it'll come back even at higher PW's though.

    Lifters collapsing from bad oil pressure? I only know the light isn't on, lol. Nothing is overly noisy. I have a spare transducer now that I can hook up. Just have to buy some stuff to get it away from the heat.
    Last edited: Jun 7, 2023
  14. B E N

    Nov 22, 2016
    What about ECT sensor? Is it reading like it should?
  15. ummduh

    Nov 19, 2016
    Yes, ECT is reading properly.
  16. ummduh

    Nov 19, 2016
    Well plugs look fine, really. They're oddly clean. Except that one.

    1-4 on the left, 5-8 on the right, from bottom to top

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    But I did find this, #7 wire.

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    Its right at the base of the spark plug clip too

    I have some more ceramic 90's, I could put one on to test, but those things are expensive and I hate to waste it lol
  17. ummduh

    Nov 19, 2016
    Also, I must have been a few drinks in when I gapped those plugs, a couple were like .023, most of them were .030, and 2 were .050.

    I put them at .030 this time. I just started drinking so I'm pretty positive about that lol
  18. ummduh

    Nov 19, 2016
    So far seems to be running great. Hopefully the plugs and wires did it. I'll have to put some drive time on it.
    tbird likes this.
  19. ummduh

    Nov 19, 2016
    Well that's what it was. It's running pretty good now. It was probably only a single plug wire. Maybe the plugs too? I must have messed up that boot and didn't realize it. Thanks for the push in the right direction.

    I can't seem to get my boost controller to up the boost. I'm running a 3 port mac valve. I had it at 100% DC and I never saw boost higher than spring. I had it at 19.6Hz freq, not sure where I got that from though at this point.

    I played with it in test mode and it seems to be doing what it's supposed to. I do have pretty shitty hose running to and fro through, leaks aren't unlikely. I can hear the wastegate moving (with the engine off using compressed air).

    My injector DC is also in-line with where I thought it should have been now, I don't think I was even seeing 39 base with the old regulator. At 58 base I'm down to less than 60%DC.
    B E N likes this.
  20. ummduh

    Nov 19, 2016

    Uh, I got boost control working

    Holy fuck. I wasn't expecting it because I didn't really try to fix any part of it, but I jumped on it and Wham! Hit spark cut north of an indicated 16psi. Giant spark cut blast. I just have the whole table at 100%DC because I couldn't get it to work last time, using a 3 port mac valve.

    Once I figured out what was going on I started watching it and it went right to 16psi and I had to let off as I don't have ANY part of that tuned and I didn't have the laptop with me , was just taking the kid for a joyride.

    Anyways, this thing HAULS at 14-16 psi using right foot boost control. I downshifted to 2nd at 35 and it accelerated harder than about any vehicle I've been in.

    Edit: I should go pull some plugs to make sure they're ok. It's difficult to watch afr and boost at the same time.
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